Nov

24

Stops, from Hernan Avella

November 24, 2024 |

Contrary to what has often been repeated on this esteemed list over the years, the art and process of trading is fundamentally the art and process of setting the right stops. Simpletons may claim that adding stops to a system (trading ES) reduces profitability, but that's only because the system itself is flawed, with laziness baked into its design. Setting the right stop is an integral process—it involves gauging current and expected volatility, weighing potential paths, and accounting for the bias.

Steve Ellison writes:

One of my best experiences with this list was that at the sparsely attended Spec Party in summer 2009, the 20 or so of us who were there had a very spirited discussion in Victor's living room about whether it was advisable to use stops or not. Many excellent points were made both pro and con.

Speaking for myself, I usually don't enter stop orders because they become part of the market, but I have mental stops. On the rare occasions when I actually have a profit, I am determined to not let it turn into a loss. And if a trade goes against me (by a nontrivial amount), that's new information that apparently my original analysis missed; in that case I am determined not to let a small loss turn into a big loss.

To put it another way, I entered a trade because I thought I had an edge, but the market moved in the wrong direction. Maybe something bigger is going on than, say, my analysis of the last 10 post-options-expiration weeks.

Big Al offers:

Stop Orders in Select Futures Markets
Nicholas Fett and Lihong McPhail
Office of the Chief Economist
Commodity Futures Trading Commission
August 29, 2017

This paper analyzes trade and order book audit trail data to provide a detailed summary of the use of stop orders in select futures markets; specifically E-mini S&P 500 Futures, Ten Year Treasury Note Futures, and WTI Crude Oil Futures. Recent flash rallies and the ever increasing speed of futures markets have called into question the appropriateness of traditional stop order strategies. By utilizing metrics related to both placement of and execution of stop orders, we show that stop orders are being used in these futures contracts with varying frequency and the strategy of stop order placement varies greatly by participant. As expected, trades involving stop orders are found to be highly correlated with intraday price volatility. Existence of stop orders is generally unknown to market participants as stop orders are not visible in the orderbook but must be triggered by a trade in the market at the corresponding price. More importantly, our analysis indicates that many traders are not only using stop orders for hedging purposes but also using them for latency reduction strategies. We provide a background on the usage and depth associated with stop orders in selected futures markets.

Larry Williams responds:

THANKS FOR THE POST. This should dispel the notion "they are going after my stops."

Asindu Drileba writes:

I don't actually use stops at all. My position size is my stop. I only bet a maximum of 3% of my bankroll. I really only get out of the market when I am liquidated. I sleep knowing that if I am to loose, my maximum loss is capped at 3%. I don't even respond to margin call emails. I often want to capture the moves between the daily open and the close. So what happens in between is something I usually ignore.


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